Did Pope Leo X contact Jesus a \"fable\"?Video version!\"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!\" Pope Leo X. Prior to I worked for mine state\"s jail system, I had a job as a researcher in ~ my state\"s room which managed emergency medical services. During that year I functioned there, I had several requests worrying a chemical called viton. The word had gotten roughly to EMS and law enforcement personnel nationwide that this an extremely dangerous chemistry was uncovered in various auto parts, and also that if there was an accident and also there was a fire involved, the viton could be released and would eat v protective clothes and also flesh in one instant.Sound too wild to be true? It to be -- this to be a rumor the was happen uncritically native one resource to the next, without any type of verification. \"Viton\" did not exist therefore (it is actually something used in the rubber to do o-rings). After ~ the 3rd inquiry I decided to try and monitor the rumor come its source if ns could. Ns tracked backwards native a sheriff\"s department in landscape Nevada, come a slightly bigger law enforcement agency in Utah, that pinned the reference on a fax they received from a consulting certain in san Antonio -- i m sorry turned out not to exist. Ultimately, however, the rumor seemed to go earlier to a tow van operator in Florida. I lug up this story as an example paralleling the story that the quote above. This quote is referenced by countless Skeptical web page on the Internet. Troubled by this one? Don\"t be. First of all, it\"s no as though some offhand comment by a single Pope is sufficient to overturn 1500-2000 years of appropriate secular and religious scholarship. The skeptics would prefer for you to think that maybe Leo committed a major gaffe here, in which that admitted what was otherwise hidden for nearly 1500 years, namely, that Christ never ever actually existed. Of course, we need only realize that Leo\"s words, if genuine, require be taken together no more authoritative than those of, say, Joseph Wheless, who additionally quoted it. And speaking of Wheless -- in act my trace on this quote, I found that he is actually among the faster persons that made use of this quote for doubtful purposes; the various other earliest person was Robert Taylor -- author from the 19th century of his very own questionable works, including one claiming that the entire scriptures was created by Egyptian monks in 250 BC , and he supplies a slightly various version the the quote. In the process of study I scoured the internet for any pages the were utilizing this quote, to watch if anyone might give me a resource earlier 보다 Taylor. Here\"s some exciting data: The quote is used mainly by Skeptics that will accept anything at face value that provides Christianity look bad. The Secular web folks don\"t use it that i found, various other than in their historical curiosities section where they store the functions of Wheless. Sadly, the quote is also used by part anti-Catholic/KJV-Only type of sites.The overwhelming bulk of website that usage the quote carry out only the quote and attribution, and also nothing else. No context, no citation. In various other words, they pass it roughly uncritically. That should be a warning to us.Warning two: only two web page that i have discovered so much offer any type of sort the context. One insurance claims the quote was made in the visibility of one of Leo\"s staffers, Pietro Bembo. Another (written through Revilo P. Oliver) claims that the quote to be made in the presence of \"intimates.\" Neither provides a quote or a source for this information, but the an initial does, type of, rotate out to be right.Warning three: A small variety of sites (many fewer, though, due to the fact that I first wrote this short article years ago) do provide a citation, i m sorry looks favor this: (Encyc. Brit., 14th Ed. Xix, pg. 217). No one, however, in reality picked increase a 14th Ed. Of Britannica and also found this quote. Britannica\"s 14th edition was printed from 1929-1973. I had photocopies made, with the help of one alert leader in the UK, of the page where this quote is claimed to be (14th edition, Vol. 19) and it does no contain the write-up on Leo X, which is actually rather in Vol. 13. Vol. 19 is indigenous \"Raynal to Sarreguemines\" and also p. 217 is the center of an short article on Respiration. Nice pictures of a pigeon\"s lungs and also a goat\"s branchiole, yet no Leo. The really Leo article from pp. 926-7 that Vol. 13 states a lot around Leo\"s lackadaisical attitude towards spending, however has no point out of the \"fable\" quote either way. Together an added note, the 15th edition of Britannica, which i have accessibility to, does not say anything around this quote in its short article on Leo, and I have actually received a copy -- from an combine in a brand-new Zealand library -- of the 11th version article, which also lacks the quote. Britannica does not know about this quote at all.Update. January 2012: with a reminder from our study assistant \"Punkish,\" I have actually now discovered information indicating that Britannica go contain this quote, however for the source within it came from, it may as well not have been there space at all. That is quoted in the article on the Renaissance, which to be authored by man Addington Symonds, who merely price quotes it in passing as a \"witty epigram\" the Leo\"s repeated by others. That does not provide any resource for the quote, and also there appears to be very tiny reason to provide Symonds credence in the matter; he to be a literature critic and a poet, no a chronicler (and we might add, because that what it is worth, appeared to have an unhealthy attention in young boys). Symonds\" reference does small to assist in the validation that the originality the the quote -- and also does no excuse persons giving the bogus Britannica quote without checking it. Beforehand in my research I decided, because that an experiment, to have someone ask several Skeptics who use this quote wherein they acquired it from. The \"best\" answer came from someone that attributed it come an writer named Jovius, in a work called De Vita Leonis X, released in 1551. We were told the this remained in the \"Vatican Archives.\" as soon as we asked even if it is this person had actually viewed this item in ~ the Vatican, we were told the the Skeptic \"knew who who had actually access, once, long ago\" and encouraged united state to look up the items in a find engine. I did this -- the item is referenced in the Catholic Encyclopedia article noted below, i m sorry specifically states that this speak does no come down to united state from Leo. That different view, gift by this item indigenous the virtual Catholic Encyclopedia, insurance claims rather the the quote originated through a near-contemporary that Leo, a Catholic apostate called John Bale. No mention is given of any work where the quote appears; this is no better than what the unbelievable offer, because that my purposes. A pair of the Skeptics have been asked around this Bale attribution, and significantly, their answers don\"t amount to much. Acharya S tells an inquirer the the quote to Leo \"has been commonly reported in plenty of texts,\" and for her, that\"s good enough factor to think it genuine. One more Skeptic at the website askwhy.co.uk replied to one inquirer by criticizing the Catholic Encyclopedia short article for not confessing come Leo\"s bad habits in other areas, however never actually answers the question posed, \"Where go this quote come from?\" an alert reader later notified me that man Bale, that was a member that the Carmelite order, to be a playwright. The adhering to was found at http://www.carmelites.org/carmlibrary/bale.htm which is now defunct: john Bale (1495-1563) to be an englishman who had joined the Carmelites and was educated at Cambridge where he was an initial exposed to good news ideals. He abandoned the order by 1535 and enjoyed the protection and patronage of top pro-Protestant factions in the court of Henry VIII. Throughout this time he wrote a variety of plays and several tracts that attacked the papacy.... This is confirmed by The finish Plays of man Bale (ed. Peter Happe), who notes the Bale in his plays \"introduced a range of matter to satirise the roman Church and also parody its rites and customs.\" <15> ours alert reader referred me likewise to Joseph McCabe\"s, Rationalist\"s Encyclopedia, which has actually an write-up on Leo X, which says: The statement that he said, \"We owe every this to the fable that Jesus Christ,\" appears in the work-related of one ex-priest lengthy after his death, and also we cannot inspect it. Encyclopaedia articles on Leo room based ~ above Roscoe\"s Life and also Pontificate that Leo X (4 vols., 1805), i beg your pardon is very unreliable. McCabe\"s \"ex-priest\" is more than likely John Bale, but I doubt if McCabe had any kind of authority come say whether or no Roscoe\"s occupational was trustworthy or not. McCabe provides no specifics, yet seems to hint the it should have actually said more about Leo\"s claimed sexual misadventures. Our research assistant \"Punkish\" reports that Roscoe was certainly criticized for making Leo his hero, yet not since of unreliability. However, the an excellent news is that Roscoe does describe where the quote come from. I acquired an 1853 reprint that this book, in 2 volumes. On web page 387-8 that Vol. 2, Roscoe notes the Leo has actually been the subject of extremes of praise and scurrilous humiliation -- amongst the latter, a quote indeed from a satirical job-related of Bale (with a \"historical\" format) licensed has been granted The Pageant of Popes. A useful reader there has provided photocopies of the relevant pages from that book. In this work Bale \"professes it to be his intention to give twin according to she works\" and also places this quote in Leo\"s mouth as a reply, yes, come Mr. Bembo after the latter read a i from the Gospels. (Ironically, also in Roscoe\"s time, he claims with probably some exasperation, this story \"has been repeated by three or 4 hundred various writers, without any authority whatsoever, except that the the author above referred to.\") Let\"s have actually a look at at that quote together it appears in the Pageant (material discovered on pages ranging from 179-180): Leo the tenth was a Florentine borne, of the noble residence of Medicea, andcalled ere he were Pope man Medices. He gift Deacon and also Cardinal of SaintMaries, contrarie to all hope was chosen to succede Julius. That beingediligetly native his youth trained up in learning under learnedschoolmaisters, and also especially one Angelus Politianus, did afterwardgreatly favour learned men. Once he was but. Xiv. Yeres olde he to be madecardinall through Innocentius the. Viii. And also at the yeres of xxxviii. Heobtained the papacie. This Leo was of his owne nature a gentil and also quietperson:but often times rule by those the were cruell and also contencious men,whom he experienced to carry out in many matters follow to their insolent wil. Headdicting himselfe to nicenesse, and also takinge lull did pamper his fleshe indiverse vanities and carnal pleasures: in ~ banqueting he happy greatlyin wine and also musike: however had no care of preaching the Gospell, nay wasrather a cruell persecutour of those that began then, together Luther and otherto reveale the light thereof: for on a time as soon as a cardinall Bembus didmove a question out that the Gospell, the Pope offered him a an extremely contemptuouseaunswere saiying: All periods can testifie enough howe financially rewarding that fableof Christe on foot ben to us and also our companie: Sleidan belief he sente lettersand bulles of pardons into all countries for suche as woulde offer money because that them, the effectes that his pardons were diverse, someespecially to sell licence to eate butter, chese, egges, milke, and flesheupon forbidden dates, and for this objective he sent divers treasurers intoal coutreis, and also namelye one Samson a monke of Millaine into Germany, whoby these pardons gathered out of sundrie locations such hewge sommes the moneythat the worlde wondered at it, because that he available in someday to geve for thePapacie above an hundred and twentie thousand duckates. You could think, \"Well, this sound pretty historic overall.\" however check the following section: boy name Luther beingsingularly wel studied in the scriptures, and cotinuing in ~ Wittemberge inGermanye (where this pardons polled maynely) started to enforme and teachethe world howe muche they to be abbused, to provide such greate sommes ofmoney for suche trifles as were nothing profitable, and wished the come bebetter recommend in bestowing theyr money, whereupon the purchased the Popesbitter curse against him and his adherents, to the no littell disturbanceof the entirety estate that Germanye: for because by the preaching that Luther,and his bookes painting out the treacherie of the court that Rome, theprinces of Germanye, as the battle each other of Saxony, the Lantgraue and also other woldnot yelde so lot as gradually past the Pope had actually commanded through usurpation. TheEmperour and also they in the ende dropped together through the eares, through the Popesprocurement, together at big is set forth in Sleidan, and also can no so suitable inthis location be reported. Various other enormities which in the Popes pardons movedLuther were these: The human being were perswaded the if they bought thesepardons they nede not to seke any kind of further because that salvation, and also that no sinnecoulde it is in so horryble, however that by these indulgences the shuld it is in forgeven,and the the sowles the lye tormented in Purgatorie shoulde flie intoheaven forthwith, as sone as the money receyved for these pardons at thecharge of your friendes shoulde it is in put into the Popes cofers. But toreturne come Pope Leo: the made xxxi. Cardinals in one day, wherby the gotgreate bribes and muche treasure, yet the exact same day appeared manye horriblefightes and good tempestes arose, through vehement windes, thonders andlightninges, vehementlye runshinge top top the Churche whereby the Pope and also hisCardinals were with such force, y it shooke downe an idol produced thepicture that Christ favor a childe in the lappe that the virgine Marye: also itbroke S. Peters keyes out of his hand. These things were enterpreted toprognosticate the decay of the Popes kingdome, and also thereupon plenty of wrotebitter verses.In the next section, Bale describes that as Leo went the end to conduct Mass, a \"great roofe that Marble stone\" fell down behind him, killing some of his guards. Walk anyone -- any kind of Skeptic particularly -- desire to argue the Bale is writing background here? Bale was no a historian, however he had plenty against the Catholic Church. Right here are some quotes from his Dedication come the Pageant: For together the holye ghoste hath taughte mee I have actually calledthat Romaine Sinagogge the mutherer that Godlye men, angry Jesabell, thehorned beast, the impe the the Drago, the doughter the the devill, the spouseof Sathan, speaking blasphemies, the purple beast, the misticall Babilon,the great strumpet with whom the kinges the the planet have comittedfornication, which have actually dronke that the wyne of she fornication, the womacloathed in purple, scarlet, gould, pearles and also precious stones, having actually agoulden cuppe full of every filthines & lustes the the world, the mother offornication, and also droncke with the bloud of the saintes the JESUS CHRIST, thehabitatio of devils, and the cage of all evill spirites and hatefullbirdes.... There is however athirde matter which forced mee hereunto, and having seene and also heard thesethinges vehemently moved me to write. This is the precepte of Christe inthe xviii. Chapter of the Revelationof S. John: for a voyce come fromheaven indigenous the appropriate hand that the father and also the everlasting throne ofChriste, through a an excellent voyce founded in our eares saying: walk from her mypeople lest ye be made partakers of she wickedness, and ye receive component ofher punishment. For her sinnes space gone approximately heaven, and also God hathremembred she wickednes. And thou commaundemet followeth which was givenagainst the beast with 7 heades. Reward her even as she on foot rewardedyou, and give her twin according to she works, and poure in dual to herin the exact same cup which she filled depend you. And also forasmuch together she glorifiedher selfe and lived wantonly, so much poure you right into her of punshment andsorrowe. This is the worde the the Lorde declared unto us also here as inthe fiftye Chap. Of Jeremy. That this serpent could perish & all hisdoinges brought to nought. Yet for al this I carry out wel remeber the sayings ofS. Paule, the al Princes ought to be honoured back they it is in wicked andunprofitable because that a common wealth, due to the fact that they be inserted there of God,neither come speake evill of them beinge but wormes, dust and also ashes, Neitherdare ns murmur against the providence that God, i beg your pardon is contrary to his holyworde. Therefore from the bottome of my hart ns beseech our Lorde andRedeemer Jesus Christe, the he woulde have mercye uppon all Kinges,Princes and Nations, and so carry out that all countries maye it is in so administrate asis many tending to his glory: For totality reveng the hath many stoutlyfortifyed mee up in this my old age. Not researching to derogate or take awayethe honour indigenous anye christian Kinge, however onely to invey against theRomishe beast, the Synagog of Sathan, and also most evil Antichrist, v thewritings and testimonye of most learned men. If the vehemencye of my stile chandelier offende thee,beholde the marvelous pressure of the holye ghoste in the Prophete David andmost holy king, who in the Lordes cause most stoutlye saide: I have hatedthe congregation of the wicked, Psal. 25. He promiseth also afterwarde byhis Prohpetes, the he woulde destroye the brothell houses and wickedplaces, Ezechi. 16. I will certainly shewe fayth the Lord unto all nations thynakednes, and also to al kingdomes thy dead Nahum. 3. Her dishonour andfilthines shall be opened, and also thy reproche shall be seene, I will certainly berevenged, and also none chandelier resiste mee, Esay 47. Sore be unto those Kinges asmanye as have actually worshipped the beast or have ayded her, or have actually receivedhelpe the her, or have committed fornication with her, as many as haveserved her, and have joyned handes versus the Lambe, and waged battell forher cause, because their names room not created in the booke that lyfe fromthe beginninge of the worlde. And also the Lambe shel conquer them at the lastlike a mr of Lordes, and also kinge of kinges, and also they shall go togetherwith the beast to destruction and also utter dampnation, Apocalips 17. GODtherefore give in the hartes the Christians whom the x. Hornes do shadowe,that they maye make her desolate and leave her naked, the they maye eateher fleshe and also burne her in fire, that is, let her abide her last punshmentfor the sheding the the chaste blood, of for this reason manye faithfull Christians. Beit done, it is in it done. Amen.In short, the proof indicates that the Skeptics are posting fiction as fact, making use of the work of someone who thought the Catholic Church to be the prostitute of Babylon. So climate -- based upon the data, as far as I\"m concerned, anyone using this quote is perpetuating error. However if any Skeptic can answer the questions following, providing documentation for their replies, I will certainly revoke this essay and also report the facts. Not permitting Bale together a source, the inquiries are: when did Leo do this statement (the year is enough)?To who did Leo make it, and also who heard it?What to be the paper definition that motivated Leo to do this statement?In what document did those who heard it, report it? What reaction, if any, to be there come this statement?In what contemporary works is all of this reported?Based top top the above, display what in paper definition the \"fable\" Leo refers to -- the whole existence that a guy named Jesus? not his existence, yet just details events? Etc. Objection: You\"re glossing end the real story about Leo X, namely the he was among the many corrupt, ethically bankrupt popes the Catholic Church has actually inflicted ~ above the world. I\"m no \"glossing over\" anything. This is not an article about Leo\"s lifestyle but around a false quote attribited to him on the Internet and also in books, in support of one idea that Jesus never ever existed. Friend seem to think that Bale\"s mention of bizarre prognostications, mirrors he is unhistorical. That\"s a strange attitude to take if you believe in the bizarre occasions readily embraced by christians in the Bible. No at all. The Bale wrote this together a satire -- i beg your pardon Happe identifies together Bale\"s genre -- is what shows it is \"unhistorical\". The was never meant together a history. I placed the part about the omens come ask unbelievable if THEY were willing to take the issue as historical and also Bale\"s intent as such. If they want the fable quote to it is in historical, what the this? ns would have no problem accepting Bale\"s report of supernaturalism, prima facie -- if this were actually a paper of historical intent -- but it isn\"t.If you\"re appropriate in making Bale into a liar, then he is portraying Christian dishonesty. No an ext a liar 보다 Monty Python, actually. Remember: satire. If Bale was without doubt a liar and his alleged quotation the Leo X to be false, climate why to be it remembered for so long? the wasn\"t. The \"fable\" quote was revived by Robert Taylor, the heretic that wrote native his jailhouse and also confused one Isaac watts hymn v one because that Prometheus, and Wheless followed Taylor uncritically (McCabe walk not, however). The quote was not remembered in ~ all out of treatment or concern. Contrast: If the quote was true, why was its paper definition so quickly forgotten? Tekton research Assistant \"Punkish\" lugged our fist to a conversation here in between Roger Pearse and also another human who claimed the resource of the quote together Pope Alexander VI.Update, may 2013: I have actually some much more people trying to validate this thing other ways now. Here’s three explanations that space making the rounds this days, and the replies:It was Pope Leo X who made the many infamous and also damaging statement around Christianity in the history of the Church. His declaration revealed to the civilization papal knowledge of the Vatican\"s false presentation the Jesus Christ and also unashamedly exposed the puerile nature that the Christian religion. At a lavish great Friday banquet in the Vatican in 1514, and in the company of \"seven intimates\" (Annales Ecclesiastici, Caesar Baronius, Folio Antwerp, 1597, tome 14), Leo do an impressive announcement the the Church has since tried difficult to invalidate. Elevating a chalice that wine right into the air, Pope Leo toasted: \"How well we know what a rewarding superstition this fable that Christ has actually been because that us and our predecessors.\"Answer: This one’s no going come work, because Baronius’ text is a background of the church since brand-new Testament time – and also it quit recording at the year 1198, since Baronius died before he might finish it. That way he didn’t obtain to Leo X’s time by numerous hundred years. Yet in instance some movie critic wants to say he pointed out the quote anyway, maybe as some sort of illustration...fine. There’s a connect to the history on Google publications below. Let’s see among the doubters tell united state where that is.The second and third references:The pope\"s pronouncement is taped in the diaries and records that both Pietro Cardinal Bembo (Letters and also Comments ~ above Pope Leo X, 1842 reprint) and also Paolo Cardinal Giovio (De Vita Leonis Decimi, , op. Cit.), 2 associates that were witnesses to it. Answer: The Letters and Comments work-related by Bembo does exist...sort of. Yet there is no 1842 edition provided in OCLC, and also the title is in reality this:Petri Bembi Epistolraum Leonis decimi Pontificis Max. Nomine scriptarum libri sexdecim ad Paulum tertium Pont. Max. Romam missiTranslated, that’s \"16 publications of letters composed in the name of pope Leo X, specialized to Pope Paul III\" -- not quote the same title. For this reason I’m betting the quote is additionally not in here. But, below again, this work is ~ above Google books (link below) so maybe some enterprising atheist can discover it in there. Ns can’t.As for that last item by Jovius, it transforms out i get it Pearse – who also gave me part feedback because that this short article – has actually a copy of that on his website (link below). He states the quote isn’t in there. Again, maybe among you atheists can uncover it for us.Of course I’m being facetious. We have actually other reasons, besides not finding it, to suspect the quote isn’t in this works. The resource of these claims is an write-up for the conspiracy/UFO magazine Nexus, and also an post by Tony Bushby top top the alleged criminality that the papacy.
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For those who might not recall, Bushby is the writer of The scriptures Fraud, a publication that offers the Leo quote ~ above the sheathe and likewise has a propensity to include made-up factoids. Bushby has actually no scruples as soon as it concerns documentation – so it’s no surprise this one’s transforming up bogus, too.LinkLinkLink-JPH